He’s a vocalist of one of most renown and liked bands in hardcore scene. Just recently he’s finished touring USA, in June he played at Mystic Festival in Gdańsk, and next year he’ll perform with his band at Primavera Festival. He’s also a really nice guy. I chatted with Graham Sayle, a vocalist of band called High Vis, and we talked about mental health, touring USA, their newest LP and much more.
[MOŻESZ PRZECZYTAĆ TEN WYWIAD PO POLSKU]
So, first things first – thanks for having you here, how does it feel to play in Poland again, since just a few months ago you’ve played at Mystic Festival? Was it anyhow special or different, since You’ve played at festival, which is suited mostly for metal fans?
Graham: That was amazing, it was such a cool festival. Seems like extreme music is massive here, apparently. We had really good time, especially considering that we as a band didn’t exactly fit into the lineup, if you look at it one way. I love that kind of music, but I never really go to metal festivals, so it was really cool and it was really nice that we were asked to play there. It’s nice to feel uncomfortable and do the things that are uncomfortable.
I’ve read similar words from You in one of interviews, that You try to do things that are uncomfortable. Is it like Your new philosophy?
Graham: Yeah, I think it’s important to do so. If you don’t try things out of fear… a lot of it lies in identity. When you identify as something, and you’re in your box, then you won’t fit into other roles. And that cuts out so many experiences, and you don’t get to see a lot. It’s important to do uncomfortable thing or a scary thing, it’s exciting, the only way really to have new experiences, true experiences.
So the next step for you should be playing at folk or country festival I guess?
Graham: Yeah, I think going to a place where people, however they identify, what genres they feel, it’s interesting. When you watch like hardcore bands, the way they identify, I’m not saying we’re hardcore band, we’ve come from that, and the way we’re trying to approach the shows – it’s not necessarily like you’re not performing for people, it’s like a whole thing, a collective thing. And you can’t deny that. It’s really exciting for me to do, to work hard to put everything into performance.
Yeah, and since you mentioned identity. A lot of people from hardcore scene or metal scene, they care a lot about identity. And since you mix the genres, do you find people who have problem with that, people thinking, that maybe you don’t belong to the scene?
Graham: Well, I think that people can’t really deny the fact, that we’re around for years. We’ve never really had people saying like we don’t belong here. And if it happens so, then I think problem is with them, their insecurity. If I ever come across it, I’ll try to approach it with sympathy or empathy for that person. Since when you try to exclude someone from the experience or a thing you hold onto, it’s like entirely on them.
Okay. I wanted to ask you about your US tour. What can You say about it. Was it a big opportunity for you?
Graham: Well, I never think about this kind of stuff as an opportunity. Cause it’s like an opportunity for what? It was amazing, I’m really thankful for it. It was different. There was a lot of different groups, playing with us. Well maybe it was an opportunity, maybe I’m just being pedantic with words.
Did You notice a big difference while playing in all the different states? Since it’s such a big country?
Graham: Yeah, I mean there are definitely differences between states. You could notice a different quality of life in states. But as a whole it was very American.
And what was Your favorite memory from this tour?
Graham: I think I really really enjoyed LA shows. We played 3 shows in LA. We’ve played in at big concert venue, with a big roof, called The Belasco. And we also played a show in a record store, and in DIY squat place in a Skid Row. So we had the whole experience, it was great, we had a really good time there.
That’s nice. And I also wanted to ask you about playing at Primavera next year. It’s a big thing. Do you think it might be like a turning point in your careers?
Graham: Like I was saying, I don’t think about these things as turning points. You gotta take it as it comes I think. But it’s awesome, it’s great to be asked to do that and being recognized for doing what you’re doing. Because it’s a big, commercial festival, same as Glastonbury, where we were also playing. These festivals are held in high esteem, and you play for people, who wouldn’t normally have access to bands like us. We’d have never dreamt for playing in front of so many people, so this is really cool.
Okay, now I gotta ask You about Your new LP, Guided Tour. You’ve recently released that album. Are you happy with a reception?
Graham: Yeah, it’s been amazing. Everyone we spoke to was positive about it. But the reception is just a bonus, because I’m personally happy with a record and that’s all that can really be. It’s a thing that we made for ourselves.
And what was the most difficult thing about recording Guided Tour?
Graham: I guess we’re all trying to do the best, and it’s difficult, it’s a hard work. But it feels to me like it paid off. There’s nowhere where I listen to it and think “Fuck, I could’ve worked harder on that”.
On this record, as well as on previous ones, you do bring an issue of struggling with mental health. Is it a problem that you find especially visible in Britain, or rather an universal one?
Well it’s definitely an universal one. I think the modern condition is like we live in a sick society. Whatever it is, late stage or end stage capitalism, it’s killing us all. It’s hard, it’s constant struggle trying to stay afloat really, stay ground, stay present. And it’s definitely something universal, no matter where you live, circumstances are… it’s not easy.
Yeah, and I wanted to ask You about that, since many of my friends here are struggling too, so it’s also to have anyone who offers any kind of help, also through music.
Graham: It’s a therapy for myself I think. If that helps all the people then it’s amazing.
Your lyrics and vocals are often aggressive or passionate, but the music itself is often quite calm. Does it represent anger, that most of us keeps inside?
Graham: Yeah, definitely.
So, was it intentional?
Graham: Well, what I’m thinking when I sing the songs just comes out, some stuff is softer, some is just outright sort of anger, but it’s all a way to process this stuff and cope with how you’re feeling. There’s definitely a place for anger and violence, but you need to control these feeling, everyone does so. We, as humans, have an ability to get angry, get violent, and so we need to use it in a positive sense, for a greater good.
And music seems like a best way to get some steam off, for You, but also for your fans, right?
Graham: Yeah, you know, training, doing muay thai, exercises, jumping on people’s head during show, these are some ways to do it.
On track Guided Tour You sing “If You need some help, I’ll be your guided tour”. Is it an offer to your audience? Or was this song written from a perspective of a therapist, or something completely different?
It’s a kind of tongue-in-cheek reference to giving somebody experience of a lifestyle without having to invest in lifestyle itself. But that’s just what I was thinking about back then. Lyrics are to me a means to offer something for someone else. That’s the nice thing about music. What I think about, my experience, what I wrote this song about… It’s not about me. What was is gone, people can listen to it and take what they want from it, interpret the way they want.
Okay. I also wanted to ask about a line “Pacifism is a privilege” from a track called Gone Forever. Does it mean that we all (well, almost all) have to fight, even if we don’t want to? And pacifism is a privilege of those few, who don’t have to worry about better future?
Graham: What I meant is that in neoliberal perspective people often critisise and pass judgements on people who are violent, saying “you don’t have to be violent”. But you know, where I grew up there was inherent violence around, you were beaten up, getting into fights a lot. It’s inside you, when you’re growing up. And also look what’s going on in a world. A lot of people are living in a neoliberal bubble, in conformism, being middle class, that’s a privilege. You gotta be aware that there are people who have to fight for their lives, and people are fighting for bare minimum. You need to understand their perspective on a world, and their experience.
So it’s kind of reference to class struggle.
Graha,: Yeah, and judgement. People’s judgement of other people. When people are pushed into corner, and neglected to a point, of course they’ll turn to violence. When people can’t communicate, haven’t got a voice, a space to feel seen and heard, and then are criticized cause they turn to violence. To criticize people for that – it’s like neglecting their experience.
Right, it’s easy to do, when you’re in better position.
Graham: Yeah, it’s easy to say: you should’ve done this and that… no one’s fucking listening.
You write punk music, which is also a bit dreamy. Was it Your idea since High Vis was created, or did it just came out this way while you’ve been playing together?
Graham: It’s just grown. I always said this about the genre – we never set out to like we’re gonna be this kind of band, we’re gonna do this or that. We had ideas what we’d like to play around with, and it just kinda grew over time and changed, evolved. Members change, like when Martin got involved. And Marting brought kinda baggier, jangly style I guess. Rob Hammeren always played kind of agressive, octave driven post-punk stuff. It all evolves and changes.
A lot of punk and near punk bands get dreamy tone lately. Is it sign of our times, do we enjoy bathing in nostalgia, or was it something that was present in a music for long ago, and musicians just couldn’t or didn’t want to expose it.
Graham: I like to think this isn’t nostalgia. This isn’t like a longing for a time gone by. It’s about trying to be more present. It’s not trying to emulate sound from the past. But getting little nodes and references, you have to know your history to move forward. And so I think getting that, and blending stuff with other sounds, it’s a way to create something new.
Yeah, but I somehow the sound you manage to create is kinda nostalgic, it’s abstract, because how can pure sound of something be nostalgic, but well… somehow it is.
Graham: I know what you mean, because some of the guitar work, you can hear it’s like a descendant of Johnny Marr or something. And then the other parts sound more like Killing Joke. We’ve got this super dreamy guitar bit, almost like gothy, over 2-step garage parts, like Mind’s a Lie for instance. I’m not really playing part in instrumentation, but I think we’re not necessarily trying to sound nostalgic. People have access to a lot of music, and internet is really good way to explore pockets of past, so that may be it.
Do you think mixing genres is a way to get to a broader audience?
G: That’s definitely not an intention of ours. You know, getting to an audience isn’t why you do something. It’s not for recognition, cause if you’re trying get something back from it, you’ll never be satisfied. The important thing is to explore and feel creatively free. Genre and identity can be important, for instance when you’re doing hardcore band. When you want to be straight hardcore band. That’s cool. But with this band I don’t necessarily want to be in a prison of genre, that would limit your freedom of experiment.
Many of your songs are mid-tempo, but they don’t lack intensity. What does it take to write slow or mid-tempo song, that is yet dense and intensive.
Graham: Oh fuck knows… (laughter) I think I can only really speak for myself. I think it’s just an energy that you put in these songs. A lot of them are coming from an emotional place, and I think it all comes out in songs really.
Okay, so the key is to be emotional and to be yourself?
Graham: Just know why you’re doing it. Cause like I said, you’re doing it as a kind of release. Release lets you kinda explore feeling. So you just put a lot of feelings into the song and hopefully it catches and it just gets along.
And how come exposing your feelings come easily, if it does come easily, in front of so many people, so many listeners?
Graham: It’s definitely not coming easy. I spent a lot of time going to a therapy, learning how to be more open. Cause you know, for a long time I was like a closed book, I needed to protect that vulnerable self. A lot that it comes from insecurity. When I go onstage, I don’t want to be a caricature of myself. If people criticize me now, then fuck it, you don’t have to like me. This is who I am, I’m not faking it. There’s probably an element of protection, but I’m doing my best just to be honest with myself.
Right. I interviewed one polish artist who said that getting emotional in front of many people is easier that in front of one person, because there are so many people that it seems like no one’s listening.
Graham: I mean I’m gonna be honest – I don’t think what people think of me. And if you think like that, I guess you’re starting loosing it. I can’t control that,. If people come to see band, that’s amazing. All I can do is do thing I’ve been doing for years. You can’t control how people receive stuff. All you can do is make thing that’s pure, honest for you, and that make you happy. What comes of that is out of your control, so you don’t have to think about it.